Morsomt om sitater

Synes ofte historien bak et sitat kan være vel så morsomt og interessant som sitatet selv, om ikke bedre.

Et sitat som ofte brukes er fra den franske filosofen og forfatteren Voltaire som er noe slikt som: "Jeg er uenig med deg, men er villig til å gå i døden for din rett til å hevde det." Noen andre som kjenner det igjen? Vel, historien bak at Voltaire sa denne setningen er meget interessant, fordi den ikke eksisterer :) Voltaire sa nemlig aldri denne setningen som for all fremtid har blitt tillagt ham.

Hans setning, som kanksje var utgangspunktet for dette sitatet, var "tenk selv, og la andre få samme frihet" i et essay om toleranse. Snerten setning, men ikke samme driv som i det andre sitatet. Nåvel, en person som skrev om ham flere år etter hans død skrev dette sitatet i et forsøk på å forklare Voltaire's posisjon, og sitatet har deretter feilaktig blitt lagt til Voltaire. Så, nå vet dere, mine kjære lesere, det til neste gang noen drar opp dette sitatet. :) (navnet på denne skribenten er forresten Tellentyre et eller annet ... )


Kommentarer:
Postet av: Knut Stian Olsen

Jo jeg har hørt den historien selv og jeg har sitert Voltaire på det flere ganger, men sitatet mister ikke gyldighet av den grunn selv om det kanskje er feil person som blir kreditert :O)

24.10.2006 @ 00:38
URL: http://knutstianolsen.weblogg.no
Postet av: Shoaib

Det er jeg enig i, for å komme med et sitat jeg også; "det viktige er hva som sies, ikke hvem som sier det" -Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib

Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Islamistene vil gjerne ta livet av meningsmotstandere.Er der nødvendig å dø for å si det man mener her ?Muslimenes talsmenn i Norge må ordne seg livvakt om de vil tale fritt ?http://www.vg.no/spesial/bakgrunn/?id=1106

Postet av: Shoaib

Det er ingen sammenheng mellom de tingene du sier her, og heller ingen sammenheng mellom det du sier og innlegget du svarer på.

25.10.2006 @ 22:38
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Å si at ytringsfriheten "bør brukes med ansvar og respekt" blir fullstendig feil og er bare diplomatprat i en trengt situasjon. Allerede Sokrates brukte provokasjon som teknikk for å røske opp i vante forestillinger, og slik få folk til å tenke nytt og selvkritisk - noe han måtte bøte med livet for.Hvor hadde vi vel vært i dag om ikke vitenskapsmenn, kunstnere, filosofer og andre rabulister, ofte med fare for eget liv, hadde provosert religioner og myndigheter med sine respektløse utspill? Vi hadde i alle fall ikke hatt et levende demokrati hvor alle og enhver fritt kan ytre seg - det være seg ateister, kristne, jøder eller muslimer. Selv blir jeg kraftig provosert av dem som ønsker å begrense ytringsfriheten. Men de har all verdens rett til å ytre dette synspunktet.Retten til å provosere er selve livsnerven i en sivilisasjon tuftet på fri meningsutveksling.

26.10.2006 @ 01:21
Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Islamistene vil gjerne ta livet av meningsmotstandere.Er der nødvendig å dø for å si det man mener her ?Muslimenes talsmenn i Norge må ordne seg livvakt om de vil tale fritt ?Du vil ikke forstå provokasjonen.

26.10.2006 @ 01:49
Postet av: Shoaib

Nei jeg vil ikke det :)Nå er det slik at muslimske talsmenn som har deltatt i den offentlige debatten ofte har fått trusler (også drapstrusler) retter mot seg. Disse har imidlertid stort sett ikke valgt å ta dette frem i pressen.

26.10.2006 @ 04:38
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Shoaib

At ytringsfriheten er en viktig frihet stemmer, men tror du at du faktisk har "full" ytringsfrihet tar du feil. Det er andre grunnleggende mennekserettigheter som gnisser mot ytringsfriheten på enkelte punkter, samt lovgivningen i det enkelte land (et eksempel er injurielovgivningen) og du kan banne på at du ikke skal trå mye over det en stat regner som statshemmeligheter før du får munnkurv av et eller annet slag.

26.10.2006 @ 04:41
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Statshemmeligheter før du får munnkurv av et eller annet slag.Du tenker på lokalisering av Norske jegersoldater i Afganistan ?Da Norge i 1978 sendte den første kontingenten med FN-soldater til Libanon hadde AKP (m-l) sørget for at flere av soldatene som meldte seg frivillig var AKP-ere.

Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Most madrasas in Pakistan are run by the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, the religious-party alliance that has joined with Musharraf to keep the popular parties of Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif from regaining power. The J.U.I. madrasas usually endorse jihad, although even here I met madrasa students who were against the war. They subscribed to a vision of jihad as a struggle for self-improvement and the improvement of society. Mawlawi Mohammadin, a cleric from Helmand, went so far as to tell me that these are the true roots of jihad, though he confessed that his is a lonely voice. He was afraid of everyone - Taliban, Pakistani intelligence, even his pupils. "If we start openly supporting Karzai, we could be killed by our own students," he told me with nervous laughter. Only a month earlier, a Taliban official from Helmand who had reconciled with Karzai's government was gunned down by assassins on a motorbike in Quetta.

Postet av: Shoaib

Det siste innlegget her fra IHT er jo feil. JUI er en av seks partier i MMA, den religiøse alliansen som det snakkes om. Disse er i opposisjon til Musharrafs regjering. Så faktagrunnlaget for overnevnte artikkel er litt feil.

27.10.2006 @ 11:11
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

ISI og Musharraf er noen slue aktører vet å spille det islamistiske kortet.Hvordan kan en diktator ellers holde seg på tronen?Men nå vil hans dobbeeltspill ikke tolereres mer.Den kyniske handel med terrorister som ISI har bedrevet kan ikke gå lenger.the religious-party alliance that has joined with Musharraf to keep the popular parties of Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif from regaining power.

Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

I.S.I.er fullstendig gjennom kolrupt og involvert i Narkohandel.Rahmatullah was one of those who had run off and returned. He was skinny and disheveled, having just faced heavy fighting in Kandahar. Though an Afghan, he had grown up in Baluchistan, near the border, in an area where he said 200 fighters were now living. The mullah at his madrasa told all the students that it was time for jihad. And the I.S.I. was paying cash. But his father was old and against the war; he pleaded with him to abandon fighting. So he sent Rahmatullah to his friend Mohammadin, hoping he might open another path for his son. Rahmatullah told me that he wasn't sure yet which mullah he would listen to.

Postet av: Shoaib

Bare tull ... noen få uker etter at britiske generaler hadde laget masse bråk om våpenhvileavtalen Pakistan inngikk, så har de inngått en lignende avtale selv ... litt hyklersk å ikke trekke tilbake beskyldningene offentlig da, synes du ikke?Beskyldningene mot ISI og Musharraf er for å si det mildt idiotiske! Uten det snev av bevis langer man ut med slike ting ... hovedsaklig fordi Afghanistan ikke går som planlagt. Ellers, jeg ser at det ikke nytter å fortelle deg å prøve å holde diskusjoner på tråder nogenlunde relatert til det hovedinnlegget er om.

28.10.2006 @ 00:56
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Gamal Al Banna

Er vi ikke uenige da,men venner?Jeg respekterer din vilje til dialog og du kapper ikke hodet av meg.

28.10.2006 @ 01:36
Postet av: Shoaib

Joda, vi er uenige, men ikke nødvendigvis uvenner. Men jeg skulle ønske at du skriver kommentarer helst litt relaterte til trådene de er svar på ... kapper ikke hodet av noen jeg, del av min muslimske tro! :)

28.10.2006 @ 01:40
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no
Postet av: Afghans and NATO routinely find Pakistani link to bombs

Afghan and NATO security forces have recently rounded up several men like Hafez Daoud Shah, a 21-year-old unemployed Afghan refugee who says he drove across the border to Afghanistan in September with three other would-be suicide bombers in a taxi.In every case, Afghan security officials say, the story is similar, and the trail of organizing, financing and recruiting the bombers who have carried out a rising number of attacks leads back to Pakistan."Every single bomber or IED in one way or another is linked to Pakistan," a senior Afghan intelligence official said, referring to improvised explosive devices. The official, who would speak on the subject only if not named, continued, "Their reasons are to keep Afghanistan destabilized, to make us fail and to keep us fragmented."A senior U.S. military official based in Afghanistan agreed."The strong belief is that recruiting, training and provision of technical equipment for IEDs in the main takes place outside Afghanistan," he said. He would speak only if not named, because he knew his remarks were likely to offend Pakistani leaders.The charge is one of the most contentious that Afghan and American officials have leveled at the Pakistani leadership, which frequently denies the problem and insists that the roots of the Taliban insurgency lie in Afghanistan.The dispute continues to divide Afghan and Pakistani leaders openly, although the Bush administration is trying to push them toward greater cooperation in fighting the Taliban, whose ranks have swelled to as many as 10,000 fighters this year.A year ago, roadside bombs and suicide bombs were a rare occurrence in Afghanistan. But they have grown more frequent and more deadly, with more than 90 suicide attacks this year.In September and October, nearly 100 people died in suicide attacks alone.In the same period, Afghan security forces say, they have captured 17 suspected bombers, 2 of them would-be suicide bombers; NATO forces say they have caught 10 people planning suicide bomb attacks in recent weeks.The arrests of Shah and others like him, Afghan and NATO officials say, show that groups intent on carrying out attacks in Afghanistan continue to operate easily inside Pakistan.Shah was one of four would-be suicide bombers who arrived from Pakistan in Kabul on Sept. 30. One of them killed 12 people and wounded 40 at the pedestrian entrance to the Interior Ministry the same day.That attack, the first suicide bomb not aimed at foreign troops but at Afghans, terrified Kabul residents.By Shah's account, it could have been far worse. He said that he and his cohorts had planned to blow themselves up in four separate attacks in Kabul. That they failed was partly luck and partly vigilance by Afghan and NATO security forces.Wearing a black prayer cap and long beard, Shah recounted his involvement in an interview in the presence of two Afghan intelligence officers at a jail run by the National Directorate of Security in Kabul.Shah showed no signs of fear or discomfort when talking about how and why he had come to Afghanistan, but after two weeks in detention, he said he regretted his actions and, if allowed to return home, would abandon thought of jihad. He complained of tiredness and headaches from a longstanding, but unspecified mental condition, something his father confirmed in a separate interview at the family home in Karachi.At first, Shah, who was educated through the sixth grade, denied that he had intended to be a suicide bomber. "I was just thinking of fighting jihad against the infidels," he said. "I was hearing there was fighting in Afghanistan and seeing it in the newspapers."But by the end of the hourlong talk, he admitted that he had intended to blow himself up in Kabul. "I did not know where I was going to do it," he said.After he was arrested, Shah said, he learned that another man in his group, whom he called Abdullah, had succeeded in a suicide attack outside the Interior Ministry. "When I was arrested I heard about it and I thought it must be him," he said."They came here to be martyred," he said of his three companions, all Pakistanis, all around the same age and all also from Karachi.Shah himself is among the 2.5 million Afghans who live as refugees in Pakistan and who frequently cycle through the Taliban ranks, officials on both sides of the border agree.The would-be suicide bombers arrested recently, the Afghan intelligence official said, emerge from two clear strands. Some are linked to Pakistani extremist groups, long set up and run by Pakistani intelligence, though they are technically illegal and the government says it has cracked down on them.Others are allied with Afghan groups like the Taliban and the renegade mujahidin commander, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, also a longtime protege of Pakistani intelligence, who has now allied himself with the Taliban, Afghan and NATO officials say.Several other would-be bombers arrested recently have also originated in Pakistan or were directed by commanders based there, the officials said.After a bombing cell of 12 was picked up in Kabul recently, two of the men continued to receive cellphone calls while in custody, urging them to explode their bombs, the Afghan intelligence official said. The calls came from an Afghan commander called Pir Farouq, who lives in Shamshatoo Afghan refugee camp in Peshawar and is closely allied to Hekmatyar.When Afghan intelligence, at NATO's behest, passed on the cellphone number of the commander to Pakistani intelligence, its informer, a member of the commander's inner circle, was swiftly killed: His body was cut into eight pieces and dumped in the camp. NATO officials have described the same incident to journalists.Another group of bombers was captured while planning attacks on NATO forces in northern Afghanistan. It was also connected to Hekmatyar, but organized by a commander of his who lives in the Pakistani border town of Quetta, the intelligence official said.Shah and his companions all studied at the same madrassa, the Masjid-e- Noor, in a working class district in northeast Karachi. Shah said he had studied for four years, becoming a Hafez - one who has memorized the Koran.The madrassa was run until recently by Maulavi Abdul Shakoor Khairpuri, who, Shah said, was a member of a banned jihadi group, Harakat-ul-Mujahidin. Shah said it was the maulavi who sent them on their suicide mission.Before they were arrested, he and the others entered Afghanistan together, traveling by taxi from the southern border town of Spinboldak, Shah said.The maulavi had given him a note addressed only to Umar, who was waiting for them when they arrived in Kabul. He was a Taliban member from Kandahar, Shah said. The note directed Umar to give the group explosives and said the equivalent of about $1,400 would be given to the family of each bomber after completion of the mission, Shah said.Umar handed them a white rice bag. Inside were four khaki colored vests, with three pockets sewn on each side of the chest, where the explosives were placed. "It has wires leading to a remote control and when you press the button it explodes," Shah said."The vests were heavy," he added. "There were a lot of explosives." Shah started looking for a taxi. Someone, apparently an intelligence agent, offered to show him but led him instead to the intelligence office, where he was arrested. The other three bombers slipped away with their vests. So did Umar.The Afghan intelligence official confirmed much of Shah's story. So did Shah's father, interviewed at his home in a rundown tenement in Karachi on Oct. 17, though with gaps and discrepancies that suggested neither was telling the full story.Shah said he had undergone weapons training at a militant camp in Mansehra in northern Pakistan six years ago, when he was only 15. But his father, Ahmed Shah, denied that, and he said he did not know where his son had gone after leaving three weeks ago.Maulavi Khairpuri, interviewed at his home next to the Noor mosque, denied being a member of the now banned group Harakat-ul-Mujahedin, as Shah had said. But he did acknowledge being local secretary of the pro- Taliban Jamiat-ul-Ulama-i-Islam.

Postet av: Shoaib

Tviler på dette igrunn, da Pakistan er det landet som taper på ustabilitet i Afghanistan.

14.11.2006 @ 16:10
URL: http://islam.weblogg.no

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